I made it out of clay.

[kleenexwoman]

This made me laugh. I didn't know James Morrow was working for The Onion.

Question for people on my flist: If you do not identify as Christian, do you celebrate Christmas or do Christmas-y type things, like putting up a fir-tree-like-object in your house and slapping glitter and baubles all over it? If so, why?

This stems from my mom getting into a fight with one of her friends over whether Christmas trees were "holiday trees" or explicit symbols of the birth of the baby Jesus. Which leads to the question of whether the Christmas trappings--the tinsel, peppermint, stockings, nutcracker toys, polar bears drinking Coke, and all that other stuff--is really a layer of encrusted tradition around a core of pure Christianity, or whether it's a lot of beginning-of-winter cultural and religious traditions that just gravitated around each other and ended up sticking to the "Christmas" label because it was the one with the most glue.

And I have been considering this, because on one hand, it's all stuff that is identified very strongly with Christmas specifically, and celebrating Christmas specifically seems to imply that you buy the premise of the holiday, which is that it was exactly the day when baby Jesus was born and that this is something that is personally meaningful enough for you to make a big deal out of it. On the other hand, Christmas is not so much strictly a religious holiday--it's a pagan holiday that had Christianity painted on, and then gathered different observances and traditions and meanings over the centuries. Very little in the archetypical celebration of the holiday is strictly tied to religious observances (unlike Chanukah, I have to point out, which is tied to a specific historical event and has really specific traditions tied to very concrete things. Seriously, the most variation seems to be whether you eat latkes or sufganiyot.

On that tack, my favorite holiday movie, besides Nightmare Before Christmas and the Grinch cartoon, is "The Hebrew Hammer." Why? Because it's a Chanukah movie and it kicks ass, and because it really does put its finger on what Chanukah is about, despite the protagonists admitting at the end of the movie that they have no idea what the "true meaning of Chanukah" is. The whole movie is about Santa Claus's evil son trying to make sure that Christmas has a monopoly on winter holidays, and a chunk of the movie is devoted to the Hebrew Hammer and his friends exposing Jewish kids to media that shows them positive images of Jews. This is a distinctly different message from most happy Christmas movies. The message is clear--Chanukah is about resisting assimilation, whether it's forced by the Syrian king or subtly pushed by endless showings of "It's a Wonderful Life.")

Shit, where was I going with this? Anyway, what I've been thinking about is how weird it is that Christmas seems to simultaneously be a universal holiday and a Christian holiday at the same time. Easter isn't like this, even though all the sugary holidaycruft around Easter is even more clearly pagan than glittery trees and presents are--nobody just assumes that you celebrate Easter, even if you're atheist. I know self-identified pagans and atheists who do Christmas. I've known Jews who do Christmas, and it's not because they've got Christians in the family, it's because the kids like the big tree or that's when the big bonus for presents comes or everyone else does, why not?

And I'm thinking of years past when I told my mom I didn't believe in Jesus, I was Jewish, don't make me to go church, and she got mad and decided I didn't need to get presents if I didn't believe in Christmas. (I got the presents anyway. And Mom eventually calmed down and got a lot more okay about my humanist-Jewish-thing religious identification.) And I'm wondering whether making Christmas into such a universal holiday means that it just really isn't strictly a religious holiday at its core, and it'll stay as a time of lights in the darkness and presents and feasting no matter which religion latches onto it, or whether it's another way that default Christianity shapes and transforms the culture I live in.

Comments

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

christmas has basically nothing to do with christianity and you're ignorant or stupid to deny this. it was basically a revival in popularity of a christmas carol plus fear of communism that pushed it into this hugely christian artificially traditional gestalt, essentially in order to display a united cultural front. it would be generous to say it's been celebrated this way for more than, say, 70 years.

that said i like christmas trees. they're pretty.

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty aware that it never really had that much to do with Christianity, but it's still something that's identified with Christianity, particularly in the last few years with all this "War on Christmas" crap. A hell of a lot of people seem to think it's always been 100% Christian so I don't know what they're teaching kids in school these days. (And I knew kids in high school who still seriously believed in Santa, this has nothing to do with what you said but it still confuses the hell out of me.)

I did catch a documentary a few days ago about how in the 1600s, they celebrated Christmas with massive, massive orgies. I'm sad that this custom died out.

Christmas trees are pretty. I was considering stringing up some lights on my pot plants instead of having to find a fir tree to bring inside, but I don't think it would be very good for them.

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

the supposed significance of christmas day is questionable at best and pretty much every tradition was shared with or direclty appropriated from other cultures in order to ease those wacky pagan savages into their blood cult. the idea of a decorative holiday tree is directly admonished as pagan blah-dee-blah somewhere in the bible, i wish i could remember where.

"yule" was a germanic pagan holiday, so any christian talking about yuletide anything and sharing in winter feasts is giving a shout out to freyr; clearly a violation of the first commandment.

well the feast thing isn't fair, pretty much every culture thought it was a good idea to devour the fuck out of excess food before the harshness of winter took hold.

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

yeah, jeremiah something something--the person who wrote the essay I linked to cited it. I always wondered if the missionaries who invented Christmas just took the chance to go, "Well, OUR god was born on your feast day, guess what you've really been celebrating all this time? Gotcha!" or whether they shrugged and went, "Whatever, feast and get drunk all you want, just say it's in Jesus's name now."

Yule is hardcore. "The saga states that when Haakon arrived in Norway he was confirmed a Christian, but since the land was still altogether heathen and they retained their practices, Haakon hid his Christianity to receive the help of "great chieftains". In time, Haakon had a law passed that established that Yule celebrations were to take place at the same time as when the Christians held their celebrations, "and at that time everyone was to have ale for the celebration with a measure of grain, or else pay fines, and had to keep the holiday while the ale lasted."" ...huh.

and yeah, I think most cultures with the concept of winter end up having a holiday like this. It's just one of those things.

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

pagans had the best holidays and it's yet another thing i won't forgive abrahamic religions for pretty much destroying

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

the one I really, really wish was still celebrated in the pagan way is Lupercalia, now Valentine's day. nothin' says love and romance like dressing up in animal skins and smacking teenagers with whips soaked in blood.

[mcpreacher.livejournal.com]

everyone is so prude these days

[anivad.livejournal.com]

Furries S&M. mmm.

[dfordoom.livejournal.com]

I did catch a documentary a few days ago about how in the 1600s, they celebrated Christmas with massive, massive orgies. I'm sad that this custom died out.

We need a return to those kinds of traditional values!

[nextian.livejournal.com]

Well, default Christmas makes me exhausted even though it's largely secular these days because I get tired of American commercialism almost as much as I get tired of American Christian defaults! But.

I do celebrate Christmas, actually, because my grandmother's atheist Christian. We have a tree and everything. My cousins get stockings, but my parents were always very adamant that we were not going to get the full Santa experience, because we were Jews. Most years of my life I've gotten very into the Christmas spirit; the last three or four, less so. But I miss not feeling conflicted about it. I'd probably go whole hog if there was snow and damn the consequences, tbh.

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad I'm only buying halfway expensive presents for three people this year. And one of them is a dog.

I definitely miss the unabashed glee and excitement of Christmas when I was younger. My dad is the Jewish one of my parents, but even he got into it, and he'd track in "Santa" snow and get all psyched when we opened our presents. I think I miss making a big childish production out of the holiday more than anything.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

Christmas is odd, definitely. I'm a card-carrying atheist, but all the things I love about Christmas are absolutely tied into the Christmas story, which I don't actually believe in. Without the Baby Jesus in the manger, and the angel sent by God, and the peace-on-earth-goodwill-to-all, the candles wouldn't shine as brightly and the tree wouldn't smell as pine-y and the hair wouldn't stand up on the back of my neck when the descant goes soaring up into the rafters in the Christmas carols. Without the religious aspect, it would just be one big tasteless capitalist explosion of conspicuous consumption; and yet I don't actually believe in the religious element. It's pretty much the definition of sentiment - wallowing in feelings that don't actually mean anything - but it only happens once a year, so I just shrug my shoulders and live with the contradiction.

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

man, that's actually heartwarming :)

I sometimes wonder if Christmas would be the same if it was all "Hogfather"-y, and people identified it with things like sacrifice or darkness and maniacal celebration instead of peace and babies.

The sentiment does tend to make me grumpy around this time of year just because it seems like it's pushed everywhere. Hearing "Christmas Shoes" over and over again pretty much numbs my heart. The religious aspect of Easter is the holiday I don't believe in that still makes me shiver.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

The sentiment does tend to make me grumpy around this time of year just because it seems like it's pushed everywhere.

It is, thank God, not quite so bad over here, where the sentiment is still tied more closely to traditional, liturgically-defined ways of celebrating. Without the traditions, I'd drop Christmas altogether. Christmas songs - as opposed to carols - make me want to throw things at the radio.

[dfordoom.livejournal.com]

The sentiment does tend to make me grumpy around this time of year just because it seems like it's pushed everywhere.

It's the relentless cheerfulness and the overwhelming sentimentality that turns me off. When I go to the mall and I have to listen to The Little Drummer Boy for the ten thousandth time, I really do want to join the War on Christmas!

I'm an atheist but I don't think my dislike of Christmas has much to do with my beliefs. It's just too crass and false. Sending Christmas cards to people one actually doesn't like. The fact that it has virtually nothing to do with actual Christianity is one of its few redeeming features for me!

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

The vast majority of Christmas songs make me want to puke. I think "I Want a Hippopotamus for Christmas" is the only song constantly played (around here, anyway) that I still like after hearing it year after year. The awful thing is that my mother's favorite radio station plays almost nothing but Christmas songs starting the day after Halloween.

[dfordoom.livejournal.com]

my mother's favorite radio station plays almost nothing but Christmas songs starting the day after Halloween.

I don't understand why more people don't go berserk and start running amok in shopping centres as a result of Christmas music overload.

[woodburner.livejournal.com]

Yep! Because I grew up Christian, and because it's fun. :3

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

It is fun! Sometimes I wish I wasn't so ambivalent about the whole thing...it helps that my mom has stopped pushing the church aspect of it.

[anivad.livejournal.com]

I thought that Christmas trees had a completely pagan origin? :\

But yeah, why not? You don't need to adhere to a religion to enjoy its holidays. Here we kind of celebrate everything regardless of personal beliefs, because holidays are fun, and most of the time there's good food involved. And with Christmas in particular it started out as a winter solstice festival, so there were non-Christians already celebrating it to begin with, and then the Christians just decided to join in on the celebrations. So it's more of an all-purpose time of holidaying, and people can celebrate it for religious or non-religious reasons.

[rhiannonhero.livejournal.com]

Yes, the "historical Christ", for whatever that means, was more likely born in spring, anyway. They just set up a celebration of his birth to correspond with the already existing celebration of the return of light around Solstice. (I guess the liked the symbolism, too, as though Christ was the light returning to earth with his birth.)

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

Around the time of the Roman census...which would have been at the beginning of the Roman year, around March. It makes more sense to spread the holidays out, I guess, because celebrating your god's birth and death in the same month is definitely a little whiplashy unless it's specifically set up that way.

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

They are most probably pagan, but I guess there's a legend about how some saint got mad when he encountered a bunch of druids praying to trees, and cut one down and dragged it inside to show them that the trees were not gods. Deforestation >:(

Here we kind of celebrate everything regardless of personal beliefs, because holidays are fun, and most of the time there's good food involved.
Singapore sounds like it's much more relaxed about religion. Here there are "interfaith" observances in some places, but it's unusual for people to really celebrate non-commercial holidays outside of their belief system unless they're related to someone who does.

[anivad.livejournal.com]

lol saint. XD

Yeah, we're definitely more relaxed about religion here, which is why my online exposure to the American side of it kind of terrifies me. :( Here we have churches and temples and mosques built literally side by side (there are several roads with this) and nobody really cares. Some even share buildings if they can't afford a whole one, then split the rent.

And religious holidays are celebrated by everyone because it's a holiday and holidays are awesome and it's sort of natural to want to do something remotely related to that holiday. Admittedly, this mostly involved dropping by at my next-door Muslim neighbours for food during Hari Raya. good food. We don't live there anymore though.

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

Some even share buildings if they can't afford a whole one, then split the rent.
That is AWESOME.
There are areas around here that have different denominations of churches side-by-side, but they're little storefront fly-by-night type places. I always wonder how many people actually go to places of worship that used to house a dry cleaning establishment.

[rhiannonhero.livejournal.com]

A Jewish friend of mine sent an email out about this just the other day. She was complaining about her SIL, also a Jew, bitching about how my friend's family does celebrate Christmas, while still considering themselves very Jewish. :P Anyway, my friend said that her great-grandparents had begun celebrating the tradition of tree and gifts and a big meal on Christmas day in order to feel more American, and not because they wanted to feel less Jewish. So, to her family, Christmas is part of feeling American and participating in American holidays, and very little to do with Christianity.

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

I had never thought of that! That makes sense. I know the American custom of presents (instead of just gelt) on Chanukah started as a reaction to all the Christian kids getting toys around Christmas...but that was in the 1950s, when Christmas also started to become more of a religious holiday.

[beetle-breath.livejournal.com]

because it's either we put up the tree or have to listen to my uncle bitch & moan about it

he's like a 5 year old throwing a tantrum. I'll take my pre-lit fake tree over him any day

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

:( smack him with tinsel!

We had a fake tree too. Last year, my mom finally got sick of it, I think because the dog kept trying to eat the branches.

[anivad.livejournal.com]

We had a fake tree that lasted about ten years. It gradually fell apart until it was this bare-looking tree-shaped thing made of wire and plastic. After that we sort of gave up on setting up a tree altogether.

[ironychan.livejournal.com]

Io Satvrnalia!

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

Io Satvrnalia to you as well!

oh man, how had I never heard of this holiday? Dedications of temples and unconquered suns are just busting out everywhere.

[nice-girls-play.livejournal.com]

I was raised Roman Catholic and grew up to be a Buddhist Neopagan, so my relationship with Christmas is complicated. I still exchange presents with family and friends, send out cards that say "Seasons Greetings" and "Happy Holidays." For me, Xmas has become a holiday where we do what we should do year round: be nice, eat good food, drink good wine and be happy most of us are alive to suck another year.

We did buy a little tree this year and decorate it with some silver baubles because 1) it fits within our respective religous frameworks, and 2) I've been trained to the point where I can't imagine a Christmas (or Yule, or Saturnalia) without one.

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

For me, Xmas has become a holiday where we do what we should do year round: be nice, eat good food, drink good wine and be happy most of us are alive to suck another year.
Yay :)

I don't bother with a tree, but it did feel a little weird last year when my mom didn't have one up--we spent Christmas at her place.

[cobaltnine.livejournal.com]

I like pine trees. I really like the way pine trees smell. This is an excuse to put a tree in my living quarters.

I have learned, however, that in several years of pine trees + non-ground-floor apartments, that those motherfuckers like to leave trails behind them for years.

So now I have the kitschiest white tree possible. It does not have shit from when I was a kid on it. It has retro stuff on it. I can play designer on it and it eliminates the 'what the hell is this giant decoration in your house' sense that it would have if I put up giant sculptures at other times of year. It is socially acceptable sculpture.

Lights are awesome because it is dark. I don't entirely see the point of this stuff in more equatorial regions, but here, where I'm going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark, it is fun to see what ridiculous light-based public art is on display.

I am considering erecting something else in the house in the week around my birthday. A sort of me-mas tree. I will have to consider this more strongly in the light of recent acceptance of ridiculous art and its importance in my life.

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

I do like the outdoor lights. The downtown of the town I live in has covered every single tree with glowing lights, and it's incredibly cheery to drive through. Some of the more colorful lights are actually startling to come upon when it's very dark out.

I like the idea of the me-mas tree. I found out while looking up stuff for this entry that celebrating your birthday was considered to be a decadent pagan custom...I like the idea that having a little party with a cake is some sort of strange ancient custom agin' the Bible.

[ladybugandbee.livejournal.com]

I have a tree, hang up ornaments(not crappy multicolored colored balls. i have ornaments of brian griffin, spider man, a munchkin holding the wicked witch's death certificate, and bugs bunny in drag to name a few.), eat candy canes, buy people presents/send cards if i can afford it, and have a big dinner on Christmas.. Because it's fun. But I don't believe in God, or identify with any religion. Celebrating Christmas is a kitschy celebration of my Catholic family's tradition, like how watching cartoons is a celebration of my Saturday morning tradition. Mostly I'm big on nostalgia and getting presents. Soooo...

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

Nostalgia and getting presents!

Your ornaments sound awesome. My mom has a huge box of ornaments that we used to put up...I need to see if she still has those. Some of them are basically just big wads of glitter and glue.

[ladybugandbee.livejournal.com]

glitter and glue make everything awesome!

i should mention that even if I were religious I'd have the good sense to know that Christmas festivities have very little to do with Jesus, but my parents have the view of Christmas that's very.. Yeah. They think the whole shepherds in December thing actually happened, deny vehemently any connection to pagan celebrations and probably believe Santa Claus was the fourth wise man and brought baby Jesus a rocking camel or some shit. It'd be cute if it weren't so unsettling.

[kleenexwoman.livejournal.com]

probably believe Santa Claus was the fourth wise man and brought baby Jesus a rocking camel or some shit.
I think I saw a Robot Chicken sketch about that once :/ Santa Claus having been Saint Nicholas at one point is probably the most genuinely religious part of the whole thing.

[neverreal.livejournal.com]

We celebrate Christmas because it's just a tradition. And I like presents.